A revived ROMAN Empire OR a revived GREEK Empire

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On my post “Mystery Babylon VS Babylon the Great – What’s The Difference?” a reader posted the following the comment, which I believe warrants its own post, as we delve into the thoughts brought up by the commenter.

Lex wrote:

Daniel 8:21 – 25 This passage leaves absolutely no doubt that the Antichrist comes out of the original Greek Empire, which was divided into 4 empires on the death of Alexander the Great, as Daniel prophesied.
In the “latter times” is equally correctly translated in the “last days” especially in the context of the passage. (Strongs Concordance) Antichrist will arise out of one of those 4 Ancient Greek empires. Dan 8:8 – 10.
Some say that verses 23-25 refer to Antiochus IV Epiphanes, however he never stood up against Jesus Christ the Prince of princes, see verse 25, therefore it refers to the last days as stated.

Now Check out this map of ancient Greek Empire. Greece never conquered Rome!
http://library.thinkquest.org/10805/alexmap.html look at the Greek Empire in red on this map, does it look a lot like a leopard, with the feet of a bear and the head of a lion to you. It sure does to me. Now read Rev 13:2 “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion:” Greek Empire again. No sign of Rome here.

Could God have made it any clearer than this? The Antichrist Kingdom is the Ancient Greek Kingdom which overthrew both previous kingdoms of Babylonia (Lions head) and Persia, (Bears feet) and Antichrist according to Dan 8:23 comes out of one of the four divisions of the ancient Greek Empire. Dan ch 8. If you were to colour today’s Muslim Arab Emirates in red you have the hind legs also. Is it coincidence that the Ancient Greek Empire today is entirely Muslim? Entirely anti Christ and anti God the Father, I don’t think so.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. This is not true of the Catholic Church, they affirm that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God the Father.
BUT – the Muslims deny both The Fatherhood of God, and the Sonship of Jesus Christ. They say “Allah neither begat, nor was begotten” thus denying that “Allah was ever a father, or that he was ever begotten. This precludes Allah from being God the Father, and at the same time, it also precludes him from being God’s son, Jesus Christ.

The idea of a Revived Roman Empire and the Catholic Church being Antichrist is based, I believe on two verses.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. We know that the armies of the Roman Emperor Titus, destroyed the Temple, however, Titus was an Emperor, he was not a Prince. A prince is someone who has no kingdom, that certainly does not apply to Titus. The prince that is to come is Satan, prince of the power of the air, the prince of this World. Satan was the prince in view in this scripture. Jesus said in John 14:30 “Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.” referring of course to Satan. Satan’s people certainly destroyed the Temple, idol worshippers all of them, some from Rome and the majority Arabs, and some Syrian and Assyrian soldiers, all of the Satan’s people.
The second verse.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Many say this is Rome, built on seven hills. Please Note that the Bible says seven MOUNTAINS (Oros) in the Greek, not seven hills (Bounos) in Greek. Mountains in Scripture often refer to Empires, and the Ancient Greek Empire encompassed the areas of all seven Empires. Assyria, Egypt, Babylon, Persia, Greek, the Middle Eastern leg of the Roman Empire, and the Ottoman Empire.

After the rapture, hundreds of millions of luke warm Christians who currently deny so much of God’s word and walk in the ways of the world, will turn to Christ and millions and millions of those will be beheaded, Rev 7:9 – 14. Beheading is the favoured method of killing by Islam. The rest, all non Christian, all unbelievers, Islamists, Hindus, Buddhists, Confucianists, Animists, Atheists, idol worshippers, spirit worshippers etc. etc. will all worship Antichrist, all those who do not confess that Jesus Christ is the Son of God the Father. The Harlot of Revelation 17 will be made up of ALL these unbelievers.

PS The Arab Nations are currently trying to form an Arab Economic Union with 9 or 10 nations, sound familiar? The EEC currently has 27 member nations and is still growing.

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This comment got me thinking and researching and writing a response, until I came across the below Article, which so nicely put together a lot of my thoughts:

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The Nationality of the Antichrist

by Britt Gillette

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One of the great mysteries concerning bible prophecy and the end times is the national identity of the Antichrist. This is an important topic because it will eventually aid the last days generation of Christians in the correct identification of the Antichrist. Fortunately, the Bible provides us with several details regarding the nationalistic origins of this sinister personality.

His Roman Nationality

Although much debate surrounds his national identity, the Book of Daniel clearly states that the Antichrist will come from among the people whose armies destroy the Temple.

“A ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple.” Daniel 9:26 (NLT)

The City and the Temple referenced in this passage were destroyed in A.D. 70 by Titus and the Roman legions, but Titus was not the ruler referenced in this verse. Daniel 9:27 describes the ruler as one who will make a seven-year treaty with Israel, put an end to the sacrifices and offerings, and set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration. These are events that will be fulfilled in the life of the Antichrist. According to Daniel, the Antichrist will come from among the people who destroyed the Temple. Therefore, we can be certain that the Antichrist will come from among the Roman people.

However, coming from among the Roman people does not automatically mean that the Antichrist will be of Italian heritage or Roman ethnicity. It simply means he must come from among those people who were part of the Roman Empire at that time. From an ethnic standpoint, this leaves the door open to countless possibilities. The Roman Empire covered most of the known world in its day, and Roman citizenship was extended to many non-Italian peoples. So how do we interpret this passage?

Most likely, Daniel 9:26 is a reference to the power base from which the Antichrist will operate. The Book of Daniel clearly states that the final world empire before the establishment of Christ’s Millennial Kingdom will be a resurrected form of the Roman Empire. In all likelihood, the Antichrist will be the ruler of this revived Roman Empire which will “devour the whole earth,” and in this way, Christians will be able to identify him as the Antichrist.

Is the Antichrist Syrian?

Daniel Chapter 8 provides us with further clues in regard to the life and times of the Antichrist. In it, the angel Gabriel explains Daniel’s vision of a Ram and Goat as events relating to the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great. In a claim verified by history, Gabriel states that following the death of Alexander, the empire will be divided into four parts. From one of those four parts, the Antichrist will arise:

“The shaggy male goat represents the king of the Greek Empire. The four prominent horns that replaced the one large horn show that the Greek Empire will break into four sections with four kings, none of them as great as the first. At the end of their rule, when their sin is at its height, a fierce king, a master of intrigue, will rise to power. He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause a shocking amount of destruction and succeed in everything he does. He will destroy powerful leaders and devastate the holy people.” Daniel 8:21-24 (NLT)

Daniel Chapter 11 provides an in-depth examination of the history of the breakup Alexander’s empire, describing historical events relating to the King of the North and the King of the South. The latter part of the chapter describes the Antichrist, identifying him with other historical figures who have held the title “King of the North.” This, along with the passage cited above, clearly links the Antichrist to the Northern Kingdom of the divided Greek Empire. This kingdom was ruled by one of Alexander’s generals, Seleucus, who ruled the areas of Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the Antichrist will in some way be linked to this geographic area of the Middle East.

Isaiah Chapter 10

In addition to Daniel 8, the prophet Isaiah also offers some interesting insight concerning a “king of Assyria”:

“After the Lord has used the king of Assyria to accomplish his purposes in Jerusalem, he will turn against the king of Assyria and punish him – for he is proud and arrogant. He boasts, ‘By my own power and wisdom I have won these wars. By my own strength I have captured many lands, destroyed their kings, and carried off their treasures. By my greatness I have robbed their nests of riches and gathered up kingdoms as a farmer gathers eggs. No one can even flap a wing against me or utter a peep of protest.” Isaiah 10:12-14 (NLT)

Although not directly identified by Isaiah, this king of Assyria bears a striking resemblance to the Antichrist. Both the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation describe the Antichrist as proud and arrogant, boasting arrogantly and blaspheming God Himself. His boast that “no one can even flap a wing against me or utter a peep of protest” also fits the description of the Antichrist as given in the Book of Revelation:

“They worshiped the dragon for giving the beast such power, and they worshiped the beast. ‘Is there anyone as great as the beast?’ they exclaimed. ‘Who is able to fight against him?’” Revelation 13:4 (NLT)

Isaiah 10, coupled with Daniel 8, lends support to the idea that the Antichrist will somehow be connected to political power in this region of the world.

Is the Antichrist Jewish?

Is the Antichrist Jewish? Although there is no definitive answer, two Bible verses provide us with good reason to believe he will be. The first appears in the Book of Genesis when God prophesies the coming of Israel’s Messiah and Satan’s Antichrist.

“From now on, you and the woman will be enemies, and your offspring and her offspring will be enemies. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” Genesis 3:15 (NLT)

Later on, when Jacob is blessing his sons, he makes this prophecy about Dan:

“Dan will govern his people like any other tribe in Israel. He will be a snake beside the road, a poisonous viper along the path, that bites the horse’s heels so the rider is thrown off.” Genesis 49:16-17 (NLT)

This reference to a serpent striking a heel may indicate that the Antichrist will be a Jew from the tribe of Dan, but it isn’t certain and many reasonable people are divided on this issue.

In addition to this reference to the tribe of Dan, the Book of Daniel points out that the Antichrist will worship himself above all else:

“Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.” Daniel 11:37 (KJV)

This passage is often referenced by those who believe the Antichrist will be of Jewish heritage. The fact that he will have no regard “for the God of his fathers” is viewed as a reference to the monotheistic God of the Jews.

Adding further fuel to speculation that the Antichrist might be Jewish is the following passage from the Book of Revelation:

“Then I saw another beast come up out of the earth. He had two horns like those of a lamb, and he spoke with the voice of a dragon.” Revelation 13:11 (NLT)

This verse states that the Antichrist will “come up out of the earth,” a biblical phrase often associated with the promised land and the Jewish people. Throughout the Old Testament, the earth is used as a symbol for Israel, while the sea is used as a symbol for the Gentile peoples:

“And now in my vision I saw beast rising up out of the sea. It had seven heads and ten horns, with ten crowns on its horns. And written on each head were names that blasphemed God.” Revelation 13:1 (NLT)

The verse above is a reference to the Antichrist’s kingdom, which as stated before, will be a revived form of the Roman Empire – thus emerging from among the Gentile people. But all the authority of this kingdom will be exercised by “the beast from the earth” referenced in Revelation 13:11:

“He exercised all the authority of the first beast. And he required all the earth and those who belong to this world to worship the first beast, who death-wound had been healed.” Revelation 13:12 (NLT)

The first beast, whose “death-wound had been healed,” is the revived Roman Empire. The Book of Daniel clearly states that this world empire will re-emerge in the last days, thus becoming healed of its mortal wound. But the one who rules it will “come up out of the earth.” Could this be a reference to the Antichrist’s Jewish heritage?

Will the Jews Accept the Antichrist as Messiah?

All the speculation surrounding the Antichrist’s possible Jewish heritage lends itself to another question: Will the Jews accept the Antichrist as their Messiah? Many believe that the following statement by Jesus is really a prophecy that the Jewish people will accept the Antichrist as their Messiah:

“I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” John 5:43 (KJV)

The Antichrist would have to be Jewish in order to be accepted by Israel as the Messiah. Many believe this scripture points to a specific person in the future who will “come in his own name” and be accepted as the Redeemer of Israel.

Conclusion

It is an absolute certainty that the Antichrist will arrive on the world scene as the ruler of a revived Roman empire. However, it is less certain whether or not he will be of actual Italian descent or some other ethnic background. Several scriptures offer the possibility that he could be Assyrian, Greek, or Jewish. But none of them offer us the definitive statement contained in Daniel 9:26.

So how do we rectify these seemingly contradictory prophecies concerning the Antichrist’s nationality? Is he Roman? Italian? Jewish? Assyrian? Greek? He doesn’t necessarily have to be exclusively one or another. He could be an Assyrian Jew born and raised in Italy, or any number of possible combinations. We don’t know for certain, but history indicates that each of these prophecies will be harmonized when the Antichrist finally appears.

Two thousand years ago, the seemingly contradictory prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah were all harmonized in the life of Jesus Christ who was a Nazarene born in Bethlehem who came out of Egypt. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see how this was possible, but for the Jewish scholars who lived before the birth and ministry of Jesus, these prophecies were a topic of intense debate. Would the Messiah come from Nazareth, Bethlehem, or Egypt? The answer, of course, was all three.

In similar fashion, a debate continues today in regard to the prophecies of the Antichrist and his national identity. But no matter how much we speculate on the ultimate meaning of the scriptures, we won’t know the absolute truth until God’s appointed time. As such, it is wise to study these prophecies and teach them to others, so that Christians of the Antichrist’s generation will be able to positively identify him based on sound Scriptural evidence.

May the Lord Jesus Christ, upon His Return, find us actively engaged in teaching these truths to others. Until then, live with a patient and enduring faith that His Return is soon upon us.

Britt Gillette is founder of BrittGillette.Com, a website examining the relationship between bible prophecy and emerging trends in technology. For more information or to sign up for his email alerts, please visit http://www.brittgillette.com

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My concluding thoughts:

A couple arguments FOR Rome / EU  being the  Revived European Empire:

1 -

The EU seems to be gaining power and a hunger for more power on the global front

VS

Islam countries which are busy fighting within themselves ie: sects / divisions within their own religion which separate them from within, and  makes it difficult for their entire ‘empire’ to rule solidly with one Leader ruling the pack.

EU Statements showing a unified front:

“The last step will then be the completion of integration in a European Federation. . .   On the basis of this treaty, the Federation would develop its own institutions, establish a government which, within the EU, should speak with one voice. . .. a strong parliament and a directly elected president.”   German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, speech at Humboldt University Berlin, 12 May 2000:
http://www.free-europe.org/english/2005/04/eu-constitution-german-politicians-drive-for-an-eu-federation/

“The currency union will fall apart if we don’t follow through with the consequences of such a union. I am convinced we will need a common tax system.”    German Finance Minister Hans Eichel,The Sunday Times, London, 23 December 2001
http://www.free-europe.org/english/2005/04/eu-constitution-german-politicians-drive-for-an-eu-federation/

AND

2 -

Daniel 9:26  reads:
“And after threescore and two weeks and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and end thereof shall be [as swept away] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”

Bible Scholars mostly agree that Daniel 9:26 is the foretelling of Rome destroying Jerusalem in 70 AD.   The people of that Prince “who is to come” were the  Romans, making the Prince “who is to come”, a Roman ruler.

STILL:

Islam could have a strong role to play even as you (Lex) wrote:

“1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. This is not true of the Catholic Church, they affirm that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God the Father.

BUT – the Muslims deny both The Fatherhood of God, and the Sonship of Jesus Christ. They say “Allah neither begat, nor was begotten” thus denying that “Allah was ever a father, or that he was ever begotten. This precludes Allah from being God the Father, and at the same time, it also precludes him from being God’s son, Jesus Christ.”

For, Islam is known to be growing so fast in the EU by birth and by immigration, that the Jerusalem Post even wrote an Article about it’s expansion as seen in the below small quote:

“Islam could soon be the dominant force in a Europe which, in the name of political correctness, has abdicated the battle for cultural and religious control, Prof. Bernard Lewis, the world-renowned Middle Eastern and Islamic scholar, said on Sunday.”

Prof. Lewis further went on to say:

“Europeans are losing their own loyalties and their own self-confidence,” he said. “They have no respect for their own culture.” Europeans had “surrendered” on every issue with regard to Islam in a mood of “self-abasement,” “political correctness” and “multi-culturalism,” said Lewis, who was born in London to middle-class Jewish parents but has long lived in the United States.

Which is why I love Britt Gillette’s final thought about the nationality of the anti-christ when he states:

“Two thousand years ago, the seemingly contradictory prophecies of the first coming of the Messiah were all harmonized in the life of Jesus Christ who was a Nazarene born in Bethlehem who came out of Egypt. With the benefit of hindsight, we can see how this was possible, but for the Jewish scholars who lived before the birth and ministry of Jesus, these prophecies were a topic of intense debate. Would the Messiah come from Nazareth, Bethlehem, or Egypt? The answer, of course, was all three.”

It IS interesting to see that the Arab Nations are indeed looking to form a Economic  Union, as you (Lex) stated, (see Here or Here as examples), however, I again still think it would be hard for the Arab World to peaceably form one united front, in any time soon, since there is such pride for power and such divisions between their sects ….. just my thoughts, however.

Jesus stated in Matthew 24:

³²Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

³³So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

³⁴Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

³⁵Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

And Bible Prophecy Teachers teach that  Hosea 9 (and other places) shows that  ISRAEL is the fig tree:

¹⁰… I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time

All of which would lead me to believe that the Arab Nations don’t have their ‘ducks all lined up” in time (because THIS GENERATION will not pass away, until it sees the End of this Age)  to be the REVIVED Empire predicted by Daniel ….. of course I could be wrong ….. but this is my current position …. for now. 

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In conclusion,  I love a great discussion and I will continue to ponder this subject, Lex, but wanted to get some sort of answer out to you without too much delay.

Thanks for the time you’ve put into all of this!

God bless our search for insight and answers on this topic, and keep us BLAMELESS until the Day of Jesus our Lord!  Amen.

Lee / ICSTR

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